members hate homosexuality. >> it is an abomination. what part of that don't you fools understand? >> reporter: aaron jackson wasn't a fool when he decided to buy this house in 2007. jackson was voted a cnn hero for all his charity work in places like haiti. but now, it's hate he says he's fighting. while googling the baptist church, he went to the street view of their headquarters. >> i saw the house across the street had a for sale sign on it and it hit me right away. i'll buy the home and paint it the color of the pride flag. >> reporter: it turned out that house was no longer available. but another one was. also across the street from the westboro church. jackson tried to get the seller to reduce the price but he wouldn't budge. jackson's charity coughed up about $81,000 for the house. and on tuesday, the house got painted, transformed in a gay pride rainbow house.

>> oh. beautiful spring colors. >> actually looks really good. >> reporter: jackson himself isn't gay but he's big on equality. >> i'm a straight ally as one would say. >> reporter: the plan is for the charity to run anti-bullying campaigns out of the rainbow house. as for the church's reaction -- it sends cnn a statement saying, we thank god for the sodomite rainbow church. it's right across the street from the only church that loves people enough to tell them the bible truth about the sin of sodomy. it helps shine a bright spotlight on this. a mansion it ain't but this humble rainbow house has one thing going for it. >> location, location. i bought this house for the view. >> reporter: from now on, the view from the church property will be as dorothy would put it -- ♪ somewhere over the rainbow

>> reporter: jeanno moos, cnn, new york. >> make it a point. you can always follow when's going on here on twitter. you can tweet me @wolfblitz. >> you can tweet me and the show. >> that's it for us. thank you very much for watching. "erin burnett out front" starts right now. next on the tenth anniversary of the u.s. invasion, 55 people killed in iraq today. why is al qaeda rising? plus, police find a bag of explosives next to the body in a college dorm room and we have the video the cops found as they went in. and cbs demands employees to submit to health tests. if not, you pay a lot of money. is your employer next? and is this fair? let's go "out front." good evening, everyone.

i'm erin burnett. first heard here on cnn, the chairman of the house and senate intelligence committees telling wolf blitzer a short while ago there's a -- i want to quote their word. high probability that chemical weapons have been used in syria. >> i have a high probability to believe that chemical weapons were used. we need that final verification but given everything we know over the last year and a half, i, mike rogers, chairman of the intelligence committee, would come to the conclusion they're positioned for use and ready to do that or, in fact, have been used. >> or, in fact, have been used. the head of the senate intelligence committee dianne feinstein echoed that warning with a stark message to the president. and i will quote her. she said, i think the probabilities are very high, we are going in dark times and i think the white house needs to be prepared. both committees now have been fully briefed. all right. i want to bring our guests tonight and talk about what this means. seth jones joins us with general

wesley clark. thanks very much for both of you. you know about this issue. general, let me start with you. this is something the president has set as a red line, i'll play what he said in a moment, but he has said if chemical weapons are used, that's a red line. what does the u.s. do if they have been? >> both secretary of state and the president have looked very closely at this issue of what assistance can be given to the syrian resistance, the rebels there. and the syrian rebels are getting increasingly well organized. they're right now just representatives, pretty soon the government will be formed. people will have positions so i think what you are going to see is more and more u.s. assistance to directly get rid of the assad regime and i think the additional line is that we're going to go really hard back at moscow. because moscow's assistance has been pivotal in keeping assad in office. >> how do we go hard back at

moscow? >> first of all, go at them diplomatically. their interests where the united states and russia have certain parallel interests and work those interests. the russians believe in linkage. everything with the russians is about linkage. what does putin get from continuing to support assad? one thing he might get a higher oil prices because there's a risk premium on oil. this is important for russia. >> absolutely. >> you know, the united states is going to be a big factor in russia's future because we increase the oil production and the predictions are predicting more than russia or saudi arabia in five or six years. that's a mortal threat to russia if it affects the price of oil. >> all right. and seth, what damage could be done with these chemical weapons? you know, if we're hearing and this rhetoric out of dianne feinstein, mike rogers is

different. this is -- they're using them. what could they do? >> it's worth noting that the reporting out of syria right now is a little confusing. the syrian government accused the rebels of using poisons or chemical weapons so both sides are now accusing each other of doing it. if, in fact, the syrian government has used chemical weapons against its population, against syrian rebels, this is a serious red line. i think there are a range of options including what the israelis have already done, trying to target facilities producing the kinds of chemicals. but this goes back to saddam's gassing of his own population about a decade or two ago. and so i think this really changes the dynamics of the discussion in the u.s. >> let me just play -- you mentioned the words red line. here's what president obama has said. here's why this news, not just from a humanitarian perspective but whether or not the united states military will get involved, this is why chemical weapons is so important. here's the president.

>> we have been very clear to the assad regime, but also, to other players on the ground that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical movement around or utilized. that would change my calculus. that was change my equation. >> general, does he make a mistake when he set so clearly what red lines are? people want them. if someone crosses it, you are forced to act. >> i don't think it's a mistake. i think it was a clear warning, both to assad and to his russian supporters that they can't do this. now, if the russians have an influence with assad, they better rein him back in. we talked about diplomacy and linkage with the russians. i didn't talk about the military option but there's a range of military options that could be used. >> all right. that brings me to the other top story tonight. that's al qaeda rising. why this is so complicated. violence rippled across iraq

today. tenth anniversary of the u.s. invasion. no group yet claimed responsibility. signs point to al qaeda. the decade-long war in iraq caused 4,488 american lives, more than 100,000 iraqi lives and more than $800 billion. today, another 55 iraqis lost their lives, 200 more wounded. there were 17 car bombs, 7 roadside bombs and 2 shootings that ripped through mostly shiite neighborhoods. arwa damon is covering the war since it began and in iraq tonight and i asked her how much strength iraq gained. >> reporter: there were huge swaths of the country controlled by al qaeda. now, that is no longer the case. and at one point al qaeda's capabilities in iraq were, in fact, significantly diminished. when's been especially disturbing that we have been seeing over the last few months is the reemergence of al qaeda, especially in iraq's al anbar

province. there's been, for example, ongoing demonstrations. people demanding certain things, legitimate things from the iraqi gornment. at the same time we have also been beginning to see over the last few weeks al qaeda's flag raised, as well. you can imagine the ripple of fear that's causing for the population in of itself and not just today's attacks that bear the hallmarks of al qaeda. last week, a coordinated complex attack on the justice ministry located in what's supposed to be one of the safest parts of the capital. so we're most certainly now seeing al qaeda beginning to regain quite a bit of its strength. >> general clark, is america safer or less safe? >> we built -- i mean, we got rid of saddam hussein. that's good. everybody understands that. but we gave an opening for al qaeda to come in to iraq. to sink roots in. to have tar gets of americans and now they're feeding on the

schism between the sunni and the shia population and that's -- it's more than the iraqi security forces which are shia dominated can handle. so are we safer? very complicated question. we've learned a lot of things as a result of our experience in iraq. we got great capabilities in our special forces and so forth. but if it had been up to me, i wouldn't have done it in the first place. >> you wouldn't have done it? >> i wouldn't have gone in there. >> seth, are we less safe? not just iraq where al qaeda has now gotten another stronghold. it is, of course, syria and why you can go and support the opposition in syria and might be, yeah, supporting a lot of al qaeda-linked groups. >> well, i think general clark is right on the range of positive aspects, including political freedoms now in iraq right now but coming to the terrorism problem, i think there's no question right now it's worse. if you look at the number of al qaeda in iraq attacks, they're averaging about 30 attacks a

day, which is a 50% increase from 2011. it's a last year that the u.s. military was in iraq. and then neighboring syria, one of the most significant and powerful terrorist groups is in al qaeda in iraq affiliate. they have heavy weapons now which they have accumulated from a range of attacks against syrian bases. they have got inroads in to networks in europe right now. so i think on the terrorism front, things are not looking good in this area right now. >> thanks very much to both of you and appreciate your time. still "out front" the assault weapons ban has been shelved. washington, d.c. found a pot czar. the state's high commander out front, of course. a chilling new video of a would be killer. inside the florida college dorm room full of explosives and weapons of the video the cops took when they went in. [ female announcer ] what if the next big thing, isn't a thing at all?

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our second story "out front," can harry reid cave? so today he shelved the assault weapons ban introduced by the democratic colleague senator dianne feinstein. reid's explanation, well, let me play it for you. >> i won't try to put something on the floor that won't succeed. i want something that will succeed. i think the worst of all worlds would be to bring something to the floor and it dies there. >> but did reid really want it to succeed in the first place? "out front," david frum and paul begala. paul, this doesn't sound like the harry reid we all know. this is a guy to say, you know what? 57% of the people in this country favor this assault weapons ban.

i'm going to take it to the floor and if republicans want to shoot it down, then you know what? fine. i'll let them take the blame and looking at that and the fact he has a high rating from the nra, one might get a little suspicious. >> first off, he is going to take it to the floor but it's a separate amendment. i will not be part of the larger gun safety bill including things like expanded background checks, mental health, school safety, gun trafficking and ammunition clips and may be split out and that's because of simple math. you know, i'm a democrat. i can't blame the democrats. been 20 years since we had a piece of major gun legislation. back in the day we had at least nine, if memory serves, nine republican senators voting for the assault weapon ban 20 years ago. today there are zero. and you can't pass it when you got to get to 60 and there are 0 republicans supporting it so i think he's being pragmatic. you don't want to kill the whole bill and lose the progress that

looks like we're making on things like background checks and mental health and school safety because you can't get -- >> that's an interesting point. david frum, part of the problem is there's democrats not eager to go ahead with gun control. senator feinstein described it. there's a word that she used that really struck with me. she said, okay, i'll quote it. the enemies on on this are very power l. i've known this all my life, my adult life in the political arena certainly. enemies struck with me. reid's rating with nra is a "b." here's what he said back in february about feinstein's bill. >> i didn't vote for the assault weapons last time because it didn't make sense but i'll take a look at it. >> so he didn't vote for it last time. got a "b" rating from the nra. is reid one of feinstein's enemies? >> i don't know how she defines her enemies but the reason

there's no legislation because democrats don't want it as much as republicans don't. the democrats owe the senate majority to two people like harry reid and there are other democrats who feel the same way. democrats have as paul mentioned, but he could have hit the point harder, this tribal memory. they blame their defeat in 1994, not on their other mistakes, but on the assault weapons ban of that year and they're determined never to do it again. and all of this was predictable, by the way. i've been banging the drum for months that there was going to be no legislation passed through congress. that is just something you have to begin with. the whole thing is a delusion, a waste of time. that is not how change will come, not through legislation. >> we'll get nothing? >> well, you can get something but you have to understand the shape of this problem and you have to have a creative response. the first thing to understand, change will come, not when it comes from the political system but the citizens movement outside congress. like mothers against drunk

driving. when it moves at a different relationship to the political system and then the changes are going to come when they can come in ways that don't have to be passed in the form of bills and i wrote an article for cnn.com suggesting a couple of things to be done without any votes. >> what's it going to take, though, paul, to get people more passionate? you have 26 6 and 7-year-old children slaughtered by an assault weapon. 6% of the violent crimes in america are from assault weapons. 26 -- that's not enough? >> that's particularly heart breaking. you're right that assault weapons are not used in the majority of murders but they are in a huge number -- i think the majority, could be wrong, erin, a huge number of mass killings. a big piece is not only -- >> it was used in newtown. >> absolutely used in newtown. and then the high capacity ammunition clips in newton, aurora that are so far still in

the bill but there is some concern on the half of gun safety advocates that the high capacity ammunition clips, too, may be pulled out and is touabo to be voted on. there's violence in the media and video games and holes in the mental system. i'm for a holistic system. it's very frustrating. i'm a gun owner. i have lots of guns, a big hunter. >> i did not know that! >> i have at least 17 at last count, erin. i got back from a hunting trip. one of my favorite things to do. i take my boys and father. >> you are very passionate person. i get nervous and i imagine you know what you're doing. >> well, but, see, i'm not a felon. i'm not mentally ill. not diagnosed formally. and that -- see, this is what i want to tell fellow gun owners.

nra is misleading us. these things will not restrict our abilities to enjoy weapons but they will take weapons of war off the street. nobody thinks you should have a bazooka or a blame thrower. they're more like that than the shotguns i was using to hunt quail. >> thank you. we appreciate it. pope and circumstance at st. peter's square today. we'll show you the highlights of the inauguration. it was an amazing day. a woman accused of shooting and killing her grandson as a 911 operator listened. there's a verdict. u.s. embassy in israel. we found this today and we'll share it with you. it's a rather bizarre video ahead of president obama's trip. we'll show it to you, we promise. [ man ] i got this citi thankyou card and started

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all right. third story "out front." wow, what a day it was in rome. gorgeous day. one of those beautiful, sun lit, no clouds. full of pomp and circumstance for the new pope. the ceremony filled with tradition and pope francis became the 266th leader of the world's 1.2 billion catholics. the inauguration mass in front of a capacity crowd and a lot of

world leaders in attendance. under a bright blue roman sky, pope francis entered st. peter's square to the cheers of a crowd estimated at nearly 200,000 people. the new pontiff chose to ride in an open air mercedes. took his time arriving to come close to the devoted catholics who waited so patiently for him. it was face to face and personal. for nearly 20 minutes, pope francis embraced people, shaking hands and kissing babies. he even stopped the car to get out and bless a man who's severely disabled. after bowing in prayer at the tomb of st. peter, the first latin american pope given the official symbols, a shawl for his role as a shepherd and the fisherman's ring inscribed with his name. once again, the new pontiff showed he is not one for wealth

and excess. the ring was a gold plated silver ring, not the traditional lid gold. ♪ and then, the mass. for the 266th bishop of rome. the basilica was full of princes, princesses and world leaders. 132 dignitaries from around the world. among them, vice president joe biden, queen of belgium and prince albert of monaco and zimbabwe's controversial dictator. thousands more filled the square in argentina watching the pope pray for the protection of the less fortunate. >> translator: i would like to ask, please to all those who have roles of responsibility, the economic, political and social environment, all men and woman of goodwill, we are all protectors of creation.

>> reporter: he spent an hour and a half greeting dignitaries and then retreat treated to the vatican and took to the most modern mode of communication to address the rest of us. he tweeted. true power is service. the pope must serve all people, especially the poor, the weak, the vulnerable. what a celebration. still cotom, washington state picked a pot czar. the weed warden comes out front because where else would you go as the weed warden? explosives and other weapons next to a body in the dorm room and that video of that discovery, we have it for you and the verdict in the case of a woman charged with murdering her own grandson. >> 911, what's your emergency? >> i've just been shot. >> what? >> i've just been shot. >> where are you at? okay. how did you get shot? who shot you? >> my grandmother shot me. >> your grandmother and grandpa shot you?

>> my grandma. i'm going to die.

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welcome back to the second

half of "out front." we start with stories we care about, focusing on reporting from the front lines and beginning with the president. he is headed for israel at this very moment. it's the first foreign trip of the second term. israel is welcoming him with open arms in a youtube video, the israeli embassy thanks the president. this is a beautiful video. thanks him for being a friend. ♪ thank you for being a friend ♪ traveled down the road and back again ♪ ♪ your heart is true >> this is a real video. this is on their website. on a more serious note, what's what israeli president perez said to our john king today. >> obama is admired in the hearts, even if the mouth of the people doesn't say so. >> kind words of president perez about president obama. but a cnn poll shows that fewer than half of americans believe

israel is an i ally of the united states. dramatically broken down by party lines. republicans felt israel was an ally, only a third of democrats thought so. israel is a ray jor ally of the united states. a michigan grandmother is found guilty of murdering her teenage grandson. they saw the glock that sandra lane used to shoot jonathan hoffman multiple times. lane claims she acted in self defense in an argument with the 17-year-old but prosecutors had this evidence. a 911 call made by hoffman. >> 911, what's your emergency? >> i've been shot. >> what? >> i've just been shot. >> where are you at? okay. how did you get shot? who shot you? >> my grandma shot me. >> your grandma and grandpa shot me? >> my grandma. i'm going to die. [ inaudible ]

>> i got shot again. help me. >> you got shot again. are they still there? >> someone get help now. i need help. now! >> are they still there? >> yes. >> i think -- >> lane reportedly faces at least 14 years in prison. it's been 593 days since the united states lost the top credit rating. lawmakers in cyprus adding doubts to the bailout package of three days ago, a package for a tiny country to mean a lot for our biggest trading partner. fourth story "out front," we have new video tonight inside the dorm room of the former university of central florida student who committed suicide yesterday and because we want to be -- make sure you're aware here, it could be inappropriate for some viewers. they found the gunman and a stash of explosives and weapons. now, usf police chief on this

program last night says the evidence shows that 30-year-old james olver had enough ammunition for in his words a massacre. >> i don't think that you acquire 210-round magazines and numerous 22 capacity magazines and that you purchase 1,000 rounds of ammunition and the 45 ammunition -- i don't think you just do that as a joke. >> fortunately, his roommate called 911 and may have presented mass casupresent -- prevented mass casualties on the campus. ed lavandera is there with the latest. what is the latest trying to get information on the motive and what might have happened here, ed. >> reporter: well, authorities here at the university of central florida have released all sorts of different types of information and most importantly, the 911 call and the video that you just caught a glimpse of there early on.

but that 911 call, that was the initial call that came in to police from the suspect's roommate. a young man that says when he heard that fire alarm go off, he stepped out, looked out the door and found that his roommate was pointing a gun right at him. listen to that phone call. >> the fire alarm went off. i opened the door to see what was going on and he's there with, like, some sort of like, gun. like a large assault gun. i don't know if it's a real gun. i don't know what it is but i just saw it and i slammed my door shut and locked it. >> all right. are you in your room now? secured in your room? >> yeah. yes. i'm in the bathroom right now. >> all right. don't hang up. i'm going to put you on hold for a second and i'm going to call ucf. hold on a minute. all right? >> okay. >> reporter: he barricaded himself in the bathroom of his dorm room. and you can tell how loud it was inside the dormitory as all of

that was going on. i asked the police chief if he had heard any gunshots and the roommate said that he had heard a pop and supposedly that must have been the time that the suspect committed that self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. erin? >> let me ask you. the police say that the suspect had a checklist. what are the police saying they know was on the checklist about what his intention was, what he was trying to do? >> reporter: well, this is a checklist and we have aic which you are of it. it's kind of hard to read the handwriting but a list that -- authorities here say that he had mapped out what to do on that sunday night leading in to monday morning. and talked about getting dressed to go to a bar and then a nearby bar here at near campus called the mad hatter to quote get drunk and then head back and get equipped and then take a shower, shave up. pull the alarm and then give them hell. and the authorities say that as he went down each one of those, he scratched them off the list.

having said all of that, they say they don't have any kind of particular motive or a specific person or persons that the suspect might have been targeting. they're still looking in to that. so far, they haven't been able to turn up anything on that. >> all right. ed, thank you very much. well, washington state needs help getting high. the state's liquor control board searching high and low for an expert to help manage washington's new legal marijuana business and today they announced that the position has been filled. now, we first brought you the story back in january and after going through countless applications, washington decided it needed more than a pot czar. it needed a pot posse. now, we are going to talk to the man leading the group in a moment. but first, here's casey wian out front. >> so who got the job? up in smoke's cheech and chong? >> that a joint, man? >> hey, bud. let's party. >> reporter: the former leader of the free world? >> i experimented with marijuana a time or two and i didn't like

it. and didn't inhale. >> reporter: instead, the washington state liquor board went corporate choosing an east coast consulting firm to implement the new law legalizing marijuana for the purpose of getting stoned. >> we look forward to working with the board to address the unprecedented challenge of organizing a cannabis market. >> reporter: why did they win? >> they were the highest individual score earls in each of the four categories. >> reporter: some called the position the state's drug czar. >> i don't believe that's our official title. >> reporter: competition for the contract was fierce. >> we ended up getting a ton of response, actually 112 submissions were received by the agency. 95 of those were actual proposals. out of that we had 43 proposals that were deemed nonresponsive. >> reporter: hmm. wonder why. the pot head consultant mark klyman is controversial among

some activists because he's expressed concern about state legalization efforts. >> we have no idea what the federal government's going to do. if they step in with an injunction, we won't implement based on the dates but i don't see it stops us putting together the framework. >> reporter: financial terms are being negotiated and budgets at $100,000 a year. there was a final question for the weed wardens. >> how many of you currently consume cannabis? >> clearly, i don't think that's -- i don't think that's relevant to the project. all of our consultants are law-abiding citizens. >> something about the way he laughed just got me. all right, mark klyman who we like to call the pot czar and just selected as washington's first marijuana consultant. really appreciate your taking the time, mark. a lot of jokes are made about the job. a pot lover's dream and people

competing against you. long-haired hippies. all kind of things. what's a guy like you, head of a firm based in massachusetts, what do you know about snot. >> well, i wrote a dissertation on it a million years ago and with three of the other people who are part of our team wrote a book called "marijuana legalizati legalization: what everyone needs to know." so you could tay the team wrote the book on the subject. >> i imagine you've tested it out, too, right? just to be clear here, right? you know. >> if you do drug policy for a living and you're asked that question, you have two options. you can say, yes, i'm a lawbreaker come arrest me or you can say, no, i don't know anything about the stuff i'm talking about. and since neither of those are very advantageous, i make it a policy not to respond. >> you could go with the i didn't inhale option. >> no. i actually think whether people

on our team have used cannabis one time or another or what they think about it or cannabis legalization is ir real vabt to the job we have been chosen to do. our job is to tell the liquor control board what the likely consequences are, good and bad, of different choices they could make. >> so let me ask you about that. because theve asked you, sorry, a little bit of a delay but they want $560 million in revenue legalizing marijuana. you will do the analysis on how much pot to grow and sell to reach that goal. how much? >> that's probably the wrong way to ask the question. it's true that the revenue office estimated that as a possible tax take. that's not my understanding of the liquor control board is using that as a target. at least i hope that. >> know the. that's probably the full size of the marijuana market in washington now. so we're not going to try to figure out how much money the

state will make but how much marijuana is used now, and how much more might be used if it's legal and how much more to grow and sell within the state without the problem of having people export it out of state. that's the big problem as it looks to me. >> ah, okay. >> this is not a rev nugs estimationization. not a state lottery. the only way to make a lot of money selling marijuana is to sell it to people smoking a lot of marijuana which is not a good thing. >> my final question. the dea said in a statement last year, keeping marijuana illegal reduces the availability, legalizing would increase accessibility and encourage promotion and acceptance of drug use. you just said the only way to make money is to sell it to people who use a lot of it and that's not a good thing. >> everything that was in that dea statement was true. of course, if you don't count alcohol as a drug because, you know, lots of americans use drugs if you count alcohol which

you should. >> fair. >> but what that statement left out is a few additional facts. keeping marijuana illegal produces a $30 million revenue to criminals. 800,000 arrests a year. 40,000 people behind bars. violence here and in mexico. and criminalizes the behavior of millions of others law-abiding people. for the purpose of this contract, i don't have a position on whether the washington voters did a smart thing or not. in passing legalization bill but it's not a one-sided issue. there are advantages and disadvantages on both sides and that's going to be our theme throughout the advice to give to the board. >> right. >> you can do this? this good result and that bad result, take your pick. >> all right. sir, thank you very much. we appreciate it. i got to say, i know it's a serious job but it is one a lot of people would kill to get. still cocome, cbs ordered their workers to take health tests or pay a big fine. is this fair? is this a way for our to pay for our own mistakes we have made or

has the pharmacy chain gone too far? a surprising revelation about north korea's leader and it comes from dennis rodman. with the bing it on challenge to show google users what they've been missing on bing. let's bing it on. [fight bell: ding, ding] how many here are google users? what if i was to tell you that you would actually like bing way more than google when it came to the results? prove it. let's look up some taco places. i like the left side. yeah? okay, do we need to find out what the waves are like down at the beach? what side do you like better? i like the results on the right. i'm gonna go with the one on the left. oh! bing won!

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all right. we want to check in with anderson cooper for a look at when's coming up. hey, anderson. >> hey, erin. waiting for the president to depart andrews air force base on the way to israel. undoubtedly, concerns on the use of chemical use possibly in syria as the conflict is es ka latting. we'll talk about it with cnn contributors. also ahead, my exclusive interview with the man who may have prevented the massacre on a school campus. the roommate had a gun pointed at his head and the presence to call police. the call may have prevented the execution of the last items on the deadly checklist the roommate had. that item was give them hell. michele bacmmann's claims, dana asked her about the fact. we'll keeping them honest. all at the top of the hour, erin. >> all right, anderson.

now our big story out front. get a physical or pay up. this is a new policy from the national drugstore chain cvs and has people upset. let me explain how it works. the worker vs to have a screening, weight, bmi, blew glucose and if you don't hit the levels you will have to pay a peblt. critics call it an invasion of privacy. out front dr. deborah peel and good the see both of you. doctor, let's start with you. cbs put out a statement to us saying the benefits program is evolving to helping the colleagues take more responsibility for improving their health and managing costs and a step to accomplish this is a health screening and wellness review. in the sense this seems to make a lot of sense. literally. right? liter literally. if i have to pay the cost of making poor decisions and not working out maybe i'm more likely to make better decisions. >> well, erin, this is full of

so much balogna. people are coerced in to voluntarily signing to get the health screenings or 600 a year deducted from the paycheck. so that's a problem. the idea that theyproblem, too. who knows what's keeping them from being healthy. that's one place cvs could do is ask. what can we do to help you? they think the answers are a wellness program, getting measured, creating -- forcing people really to do this rather than asking them what they need. and the second thing that's really important to remember is they're already paying more for their health insurance than other people. it's not like they're not penalized for being ill or sick. they are. they're already penalized by the insurers. so there's a big problem because everyone in this chain can pass the information to cvs from the lab company that does the testing to the wellness company.

>> right. >> etc. >> privacy issues are important, i realize that. a little bit separate from what you're saying. let me bring you in on that. $600 deducted from your paycheck if you don't meet these criteria. she's saying that could penalize people, that cvs should ask them how they can help them live healthier lives. >> look, fundamentally, this isn't about saving employers men, this is about saving employees money. the folks that are taking the test, they're making it easier for preventive care to be available to prevent them from being sick from a chronic disease. if you're not able to make the interventions early on, if you don't take the tests, if you don't take the measures, then you're raising costs for other employers. when you're talking about the penalty, think about it in reverse terms. think about the people who are monitoring their health right now are themselves taking steps that might be onerous, might be difficult, but they're taking steps that are saving costs for all employees.

and so what you're asking with this penalty, you're slipping that logic. you're not having them be free riders but, rather, having everyone take action. >> what if you're a nonsmoker -- >> hold on. why should you have to foot the bill for someone who doesn't eat healthily? >> you don't. the first problem with what reinhan said is these are not risk pools. they don't care how sick you are or how well you are. there's no risk. they know exactly what it's going to cost them every year. there are no risk pools. so everyone is already paying their way. the second thing is, as a physician, i can tell you for sure, people don't like to be unhealthy. they don't like to feel bad. they don't like to be sick. they don't like to take pills. they like to have -- they like to feel good and be able to think and play and have fun and be productive. most people are not trying to be

sick. they don't have some interest in being sick or unhealthy. that's the whole point. if the employer wants to help they should ask them, how can we help you and then they should guarantee that any help that they get and any records -- >> no one is claiming that people want people to be sick. rather, the idea is when can you make this intervention. if you are able to make the intervention earlier on, you're able to prevent a chronic condition from being exacerbated. i think the idea that there are no risk pools is a peculiar one. right now we're trying to become part of a shared risk pool. if you have a small population that generates high risks takes away from others. that's why health care has been emphasized by this president and other folks. this is a way to alleviate burdens caused by health expenditures, early dedebtion. that's what this measure is fundamentally about.

>> i have to hit pause there. thanks to both of you. please let us know what you all think. whether you think what cvs is smart or whether it's discriminatory. still to come. dennis rodman got information from north korea that u.s. intelligence would salivate to have, but it's dennis. ♪ ♪

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